オランダの「理想主義」銀行ASN、GrapheneOSを含む非Google製Androidをブロック
Dutch 'idealist' bank ASN blocks non-Google Android, including GrapheneOS (github.com)
要約
オランダのASN銀行のモバイルアプリが、Google PlayサービスやPlay Integrity APIを必要とするため、GrapheneOSのようなプライバシー重視のAndroidディストリビューションで動作しないことが報告されています。この問題は、特にiDEAL | Wero決済機能に影響しており、銀行側はセキュリティと安定性を理由に、広く普及しているプラットフォームを優先する姿勢を示しています。代替OSのサポートは将来的に調査されるものの、現時点では保証されていません。
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ASN Bank #105
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ASN Bank#105
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Netherlands 🇳🇱app reportApp report of a banking appApp report of a banking app
Description
opened on Jul 14, 2022
Is there an existing issue for this?
- I have searched the existing issues
App name
ASN Bank
Link to app
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=nl.devolksbank.asn.bankieren
App version
2.40.2
Country of the app
Netherlands
Build Number
SQ3A.220705.003.A1.2022071100
Device
- Pixel 6 Pro
- Pixel 6
- Pixel 5a
- Pixel 5
- Pixel 4a (5G)
- Pixel 4a
- Pixel 4 XL
- Pixel 4
- Pixel 3a XL
- Pixel 3a
- Pixel 3 XL
- Pixel 3
Google Play installed
- Installed
- Not installed
Google Play services Network permission revoked?
- Revoked
- Not revoked
- I did not have Google Play services installed
SafetyNet Enforcement
- Enforced
- Not enforced
- Unsure
Native code debugging
- Enabled
- Disabled
Stock OS compatibility
- Works
- Does not work
- Not tested
Profile app tested in
- Main user profile
- Secondary user profile
- I used a work profile device manager app (Please mention more details about it down below like the app)
Description of the app's functionality
Ontill this moment, i did not find anything that did not worked. It seems that the app works like on stock OS
Are there any extra notes you think users should know about?
nope
ADB logcat of the app if necessary
No response
Reacted by ⁂ Tommi
Activity
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ghost added
app reportApp report of a banking appApp report of a banking app
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aerique commented on Aug 12, 2022
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Also works on Pixel 6 Pro without Google Play and Google Play Services installed.
Reacted by akc3n and Sensor66
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closed this as completedon Aug 21, 2022
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ph00lt0 commented on Aug 29, 2022
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Tried with one of my customers but you cannot log in to the app without Google Play Services @aerique
Please correct this @akc3n -
aerique commented on Aug 29, 2022
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Tried with one of my customers but you cannot log in to the app without Google Play Services @aerique Please correct this @akc3n
No, do not correct anything yet. Lets first figure out which app we're talking about.
I'm using the top app which is the generic banking app. It's updated, I can login, I can scan QR codes and pay. I use it almost every day, sometimes multiple times. I also do not have Google apps installed, not even in GrapheneOS' sandbox.
I've also used this app (until a few weeks ago) on SailfishOS on its Android emulation which also does not have Google Play Services.
I can also confirm that the second app "mobiel betalen" does not work for me. This app is for wireless payments.
［画像: Screenshot_20220829-155749］
［画像: Screenshot_20220829-155843］ -
ph00lt0 commented on Aug 30, 2022
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That's very interesting, we only got to see an error message saying that the internet connectivity doesn't work, I recognize this from other apps that won't work without GMS.
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ph00lt0 commented on Aug 30, 2022
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Yeah mobile payments definitely won't work but that's not what I am talking about either.
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self-assigned this
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akc3n commented on Oct 26, 2022
Member
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If anyone is still experiencing compatibility issues with this banking app, please read new pinned issue post #170
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akc3n commented on Oct 26, 2022
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@DohnJoe1 The link to app you provided is from a search result, listing several apps. Could you please correct your initial report to specifically include the exact app you were referring to.
I.E., The link to app you provided is incorrect:
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=asn%20bank&c=apps&hl=nl&gl=USFor example, the correct url would look like this:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=nl.devolksbank.asn.bankieren -
changed the title
[-]ASN Bank App From the Netherlands[/-][+]
ASN Bank App - Netherlands[/+]
on Oct 26, 2022 -
akc3n commented on Oct 26, 2022
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Edited
Thank you @DohnJoe1
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ph00lt0 commented on Oct 26, 2022
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Sorry but none of this was relevant @akc3n.
One needs GMS to log in to the account. After you could use it without. During the log in process the app seemed to be using a dependency to check for Internet connectivity. Without GMS you cannot continue. -
aerique commented on Oct 27, 2022
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I'll go factory reset my spare GrapheneOS phone and see if @ph00lt0 is correct, because this was never the case in the past. (But now I'm afraid to wipe it from my main phone and not being able to install it ;-))
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58 remaining items
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Tasqa commented on Nov 5, 2026
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I've setup Wero without any additional checks with bunq this morning. Feels like ASN just used the opportunity to start use play integrity without any second guessing. Following to see what the Wero response will be and if we need to organise further. Either to file a complaint and/or let other digital right orgs need to know about this to make some more noise.
Reacted by Stephan Paternotte
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lucasvbeek commented on Nov 5, 2026
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Response from EPI/Wero:
Thank you for sharing your feedback.
Wero was launched with the goal of making the service available to as many consumers as possible across our core markets. To achieve this, we currently focus on supporting the most widely used mobile banking platforms and devices.
We recognize that this approach may exclude some users who do not use mobile banking or who prefer alternative operating systems and devices outside of the Apple and Android ecosystems. However, at this stage, our priority is to ensure a stable, secure, and reliable experience on the platforms used by the vast majority of consumers.
To maintain that level of quality, we also need to be clear about our system requirements and avoid dedicating resources to troubleshooting issues on unsupported platforms and configurations.
That said, we appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective. Feedback like yours helps inform our long-term roadmap, and we will take it into consideration as we continue to evolve the product.
Reacted by Stephan Paternotte
Reacted by Sebastiaan Ammerlaan, Nick B., Hendrik Bruinsma | DevOps Consultant, haaarp and tetrazolium
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ekes commented on Nov 5, 2026
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Response from EPI/Wero:
Slightly confusing if Wero still works on Bunq's app?
Android ecosystems
Also GraphenOS is clearly in the Android ecosystem.
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lucasvbeek commented on Nov 5, 2026
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I've setup Wero without any additional checks with bunq this morning.
Just checking, were you able to successfully complete a payment through Wero? (Tikkie is a good test subject for this, seems like they fully switched over from iDeal | Wero to Wero)
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readefries commented on Nov 5, 2026
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In the Triodos app I can still make wero and ideal payments. Besides Graphene we have e/os which is provider by Fairphone which is also just Android.
Feels like they either don't really know what Android entails, and what I find more disappointing is that in a payment that could (when it's in the same bank) be done without US involvement they include the US anyway.
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readefries commented on Nov 5, 2026
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I've setup Wero without any additional checks with bunq this morning.
Just checking, were you able to successfully complete a payment through Wero? (Tikkie is a good test subject for this, seems like they fully switched over from iDeal | Wero to Wero)
Wero payments currently fail for ASN bank, I tried it a few times this week. Triodos payments still work fine with Wero payments, from which we know they added the Graphene signing keys by the issue we had there last year.
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wouterdedroog commented on Nov 5, 2026
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Wero payments currently fail for ASN bank, I tried it a few times this week. Triodos payments still work fine with Wero payments, from which we know they added the Graphene signing keys by the issue we had there last year.
I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but I want to double check before raising this as an argument in my ASN Bank complaint: are you sure that you're doing Wero transactions at Triodos, and not just iDEAL | Wero?
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readefries commented on Nov 5, 2026
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I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but I want to double check before raising this as an argument in my ASN Bank complaint: are you sure that you're doing Wero transactions at Triodos, and not just iDEAL | Wero?
I do think so, but I only base it on what I see in the UX on where I pay and how the apps show the payments. So let's say 95% sure :)
Reacted by Wouter
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Tasqa commented on Nov 5, 2026
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Just checking, were you able to successfully complete a payment through Wero? (Tikkie is a good test subject for this, seems like they fully switched over from iDeal | Wero to Wero)
Just verified. With an ideal transaction it shows the old name on biometric verification. Paying a tikkie with wero supposedly does not show any ideal and also works without a hitch.
Reacted by Wouter
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remyderuysscher commented on Nov 5, 2026
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N26 is also working with wero on gos.
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lucasvbeek commented on Nov 5, 2026
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Very interesting. I've just replied to EPI asking (a bit more direct) if the Play Integrity API is a hard requirement by them or if PSPs can also implement different attestation methods.
Reacted by Tako
Reacted by Hendrik Bruinsma | DevOps Consultant
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joepie91 commented on Nov 5, 2026
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Quoting from that EPI/Wero response above:
Wero was launched with the goal of making the service available to as many consumers as possible across our core markets. To achieve this, we currently focus on supporting the most widely used mobile banking platforms and devices.
That is really not an acceptable response for critical payments infrastructure that is required to participate in society (particularly in places where it is about to fully replace the previously existing infrastructure), and I think it is a very good reason to start swinging around threats of contacting financial regulators about it (whose approval the whole system lives and dies by).
Reacted by Tako, Wouter, borv3, Nick B. and Thomas Makryniotis
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danieldk commented on Nov 6, 2026
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That is really not an acceptable response for critical payments infrastructure that is required to participate in society (particularly in places where it is about to fully replace the previously existing infrastructure), and I think it is a very good reason to start swinging around threats of contacting financial regulators about it (whose approval the whole system lives and dies by).
I not extremely familiar with all the legal details, but as far as I understand, this will also violate PSD3, since a bank cannot force customers into a single authenticator.
I think it's also good to emphasize to ASN in private communication and publicly that they sell themselves as a idealist/green/a better future, which is a stark dichotomy to throwing non-big tech users under the bus.
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Tasqa commented on Nov 6, 2026
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I got the following response from my official complaint. Unfortunately there is no way to respond without escalating further 👎
Uw klacht
U geeft aan dat betalen met iDEAL | Wero in de ASN-app sinds versie 1.36.3 voor Android niet meer lukt, omdat de ASN-app meldt dat uw telefoon niet aan de beveiligingseisen voldoet. U gebruikt GrapheneOS op een Pixel 9. Volgens u keurt de ASN-app uw toestel onterecht af, omdat Google dit besturingssysteem niet certificeert, terwijl het de basicIntegrity-check wel doorstaat. U vraagt de ASN Bank om de basicIntegrity-check te laten volstaan in plaats van de ctsProfile-eis. U vraagt ASN Bank ook om op termijn directe hardware-attestatie te onderzoeken, want die biedt volgens u meer zekerheid dan Play Integrity.Onze reactie
We begrijpen dat het vervelend is dat u op dit moment via uw telefoon niet kunt betalen. Voor online betalingsverkeer via het nieuwe iDEAL | Wero geldt strenge Europese wet- en regel strenge regels rondom privacy, veiligheid en het voorkomen van fraude. iDEAL | Wero stelt daarom hoge eisen aan de beveiliging en integriteit van apparaten die gebruik maken van de betaalmethode. iDEAL | Wero maakt gebruik van de standaard beveiligingscontroles voor reguliere besturingssystemen. Doordat alternatieve systemen deze ingebouwde beveiligingen overslaan of vervangen, garandeert iDEAL | Wero de veiligheid van de transactie niet.Als bank maken we voor onze dienstverlening regelmatig gebruik van externe leveranciers. Waar mogelijk beoordelen we de risico's op het gebied van privacy, informatiebeveiliging en continuïteit, en proberen we deze te beperken tot een acceptabel niveau. Zijn de risico's onacceptabel, dan maken we geen gebruik van de leverancier.
Voor gezamenlijke betaalinitiatieven, zoals iDEAL | Wero, volgen we de kaders en veiligheidseisen die partijen gezamenlijk vaststellen.
De mogelijkheden voor de toekomst
We onderzoeken met iDEAL | Wero of alternatieve besturingssystemen in de toekomst worden ondersteund. Dat hangt af van meerdere partijen en technologische ontwikkelingen. Daarover kunnen we op dit moment niets toezeggen of garanderen.Conclusie
ASN Bank werkt met Nederlandse en Europese partijen aan de verdere ontwikkeling en beschikbaarheid van iDEAL | Wero. Op dit moment ondersteunen we de dienst nog niet op alle toestellen en besturingssystemen. Daarom bieden we u helaas geen oplossing waarmee u iDEAL | Wero alsnog op uw telefoon gebruikt. We begrijpen dat dit niet het antwoord is waarop u hoopte. Op dit moment hebben we ook geen andere informatie over wanneer ondersteuning voor uw toestel beschikbaar komt. -
Tasqa commented on Nov 6, 2026
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Very interesting. I've just replied to EPI asking (a bit more direct) if the Play Integrity API is a hard requirement by them or if PSPs can also implement different attestation methods.
In #1137 (comment) There are some interesting details
Reacted by Wouter
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